Episode 27 – The Growth Whisperers
The Growth Whisperers is a weekly podcast hosted by Brad Giles and Kevin Lawrence two advisors to mid-market businesses, one Australian, one Canadian, who each work with CEOs and Leadership Teams across the world with a mission to build enduring, great companies. Each weekly episode covers interesting situations and questions from the world of strategic planning, leadership development, talent and hiring in high growth entrepreneurial companies where real results matter.
RACI: Accountability vs Responsibility
This week on The Growth Whisperers Kevin & Brad talk about the difference between accountability and responsibility, and how this simple concept is so powerful in driving better execution.
Also, they explore the RACI model which further adds in the concepts of who needs to be responsible, accountable, consulted and informed, ensuring the right people are involved in the decision and therefore the team is more effective at execution.
Brad Giles 00:13
Hi, and welcome to the growth Whisperer is where everything that we talk about is how to build enduring great companies I’m Brad Giles, and I’m joined today by my co-host, as always, Kevin Lawrence. Good day, Kevin, how are you doing today?
Kevin Lawrence 00:30
I’m doing awesome today, Brad. It’s I decided to set up in a different room today. So I was thinking I could sit here and enjoy the view. And then I realized that it’s dark. so much for that theory. But it’s always good to try new things. But otherwise, I’m having a great day so far.
Brad Giles 00:47
Good. Good, good, good end of the day for you, beginning of the day for me. We always being on opposite sides of the planet, we’re always in an opposite time zone. And so yeah, good. Good to see that you’re doing well. So tell me what do we have on this show today? What’s on our mind?
Kevin Lawrence 01:08
We’re gonna talk about RACI. Now not racing. No, don’t get excited you and Motorsports fans or bicycle fans or other types of fans like to see things compete, but this is RACI and it’s all about accountability, and responsibility. And getting clarity about who is involved in what way in important decisions or important projects. It’s an area that gets real messy sometimes. Yes, Brad, you have an interesting thing to add-in.
Brad Giles 01:44
No, definitely not interesting. So it’s not racism. And it’s not wearing skimpy clothes.
Kevin Lawrence 01:54
It’s not about cars, motorcycles, bicycles, being disrespectful to other people, or wearing less than the normal amount of clothes someone would wear. It’s none of those things.
Brad Giles 02:06
Okay, that’s the different podcast, not today.
Kevin Lawrence 02:09
I’m sure you can find that somewhere. It just isn’t going to be here today.
Brad Giles 02:15
Okay, so it’s a problem that we come across all the time in any not so much, even in companies. But any group of people really and who is accountable for something is the kind of primary question you get a group of people that come together, you get a group of people where things need to be done. And we look to understand who is the person who will be accountable for it. So RACI is a tool around that. So maybe do we want to begin by explaining what the definition of RACI is?
Kevin Lawrence 02:56
We could I was even thinking maybe we could start with talking about what happens when it’s not clear. Yeah, you know, because at the end of the day, like, so we just had our team retreat this past weekend, and thankfully, most of us got to be in person, not all. And it was even like, because we were staying in a house and working in a place and, and it was even like figuring out meals. Now, yeah, you’re gonna eat when you’re at a retreat. But what we did is different people, different meals, well, who’s accountable for that? Who’s responsible? So we had a situation where two people were paired up to make breakfast, for example? Well, some people were figuring out what the breakfast would be. Somebody else was doing the shopping. And then there was the people that were preparing. And then there was those that were eating. But even if you look at something as simple as that, you get a bunch of people involved, it can kind of get confusing, and you don’t want someone not to bring the eggs.
Brad Giles 03:59
Kevin Lawrence 04:01
And that’s as simple as it could be from simple things in life. Or, you know, if you’re booking a family vacation, you know, and you don’t need to break out the race, see at the dinner table with your family. But if you’re booking a family vacation, it’s just making sure that someone booked the flights when we flew away for vacation. That is, you know, someone booked the hotel, someone got their rental car or the transport between the airport and the hotel. Yeah, it was just knowing that all or the right things were packed and someone got the past you know, it’s, you know, in our everyday lives, it’s a little easier to figure out because usually there’s someone who will do it, but if you get into a bigger group of people, it gets real confusing real fast.
Brad Giles 04:45
Kevin Lawrence 04:47
So you can think of some real live examples Brad where it’s been like a RACI gone wrong.
Brad Giles 04:54
Well, I guess RACI if we start with the real bite We’ve got the simple formula or the simple question is, what’s the difference between responsibility and accountability and then we can move to the next level of complexity or, or clarification, which is RACI. So multiple people can be responsible for something, but only one person can be accountable. And just that introducing that really simple sentence into a leadership team, as a behavioural expectation can, it can be really powerful and important, because suddenly people go, Ah, so if my name is against something, I need to do this project, then that means that that person is the one who will come back and deliver it that is the person who will come back and say, yes, it’s done or no, it’s not done. So just beginning with the understanding for everybody on the team, what’s the difference between responsibility versus accountability? So to your question, we had an example in Australia here, an extreme example of that in the last, I would say, last week or two. And so in Victoria, we’ve had a COVID 19. outbreak and the City of Melbourne and the state of Victoria to a lesser degree went into lockdown for must have been six or eight weeks, somewhere around there, the whole city shut down, you can’t leave your house, all of the things that we know. And that they had before that after the first way this was their second wave, they had quite an extended period between the first and second wave where things were kind of going, Okay, there was, you know, maybe 10 or 20 cases a day, it was well and truly under control that we’re bringing, that we’re bringing travellers, international travellers from overseas, and then putting them into hotel quarantine for 14 days, as we’ve seen around the world. And that became a problem. And that project didn’t work as they intended. And subsequently, they went out to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases a day, which led to the outbreak, the second wave the second outbreak, because this wasn’t there. So long story short, there was a government inquiry into why did this happen. And you’ve got many people from within the government who were saying, well, we thought this was a shared responsibility. We thought that several different government people and government departments were all responsible for it. And that really got me thinking at the time, that’s the problem that we see in management team and leadership teams all the time, which is, well, who’s actually accountable for it. So I suppose my point is, this can happen at any group of people right to the top of government. This is not just this whole issue.
Kevin Lawrence 08:08
So it could be your family on who was going to make the dinner reservation or book the transfer from the airport to the hotel, you know, this, this can be a government. This can be any group of people, but in companies in particular, this is where it shows up a lot. And it shows up in many different ways. But what’s interesting is, you know, sometimes people will, why can’t two people be accountable? And we have the conversation a lot, and they were saying I have is if everyone’s accountable, nobody’s accountable. Yeah, if two people are accountable, no one’s accountable. Because here’s what happens. And I go back to one of the clients worked with and it was a very important contract that they were signing. And the document was circulated out to eight people. It was a large contract. And I was saying, hey, please review and provide any feedback. They even come to the meeting. And the legal counsel says hey, any feedback and there was like, no, it looks good to me. And it the truth is when you dig underneath it what was happening is psychological, Frank thought Sam was gonna look at it sound thought Sally was gonna look at it. Sally thought George was looking at it. Everyone assumed everyone else was looking at no one read the damn contract. Yeah. Right. And then they find out later on when they got themselves into trouble and there were tax issues and there was this issue. No one read it. Everyone just assumed it was fine. And it would be fine. And then and then the CEO signed it. And assuming that all those people had gone through it, and because So basically, is that even people, when you have multiple people accountable, people subconsciously think that the other person has it. The weight doesn’t sit on their shoulders like it the way I look at it is somebody should be losing sleep at night if it gets weird. Yeah, right. But if the accountability isn’t sitting on a single person, then it doesn’t. And then weird things happen. Like with that contract?
Brad Giles 10:16
Yeah, the way that I position it in offsite strategic planning workshops is I say, well, who’s going to be the person in the room that comes back in 90 days and says, Okay, so, this is done or it is not done, like, who will be that person that because only one person can speak at once, who will be that person and just trying to narrow it down, narrow it down. And then eventually, people get into the rhythm. But without some kind of framework without some kind of understanding about the importance of single points of accountability. It’s, it’s just like you’re stuck at the airport without a transfer, or there, the dinner reservation hasn’t been made, or whatever, the or there’s a second COVID wave to go to an extreme.
Kevin Lawrence 11:05
And there are lots of cliches we can use here, but it’s like someone needs to sweat the small stuff. Yeah, someone needs to own it. And that’s why, well, there’s only one steering wheel in a car.
Brad Giles 11:19
Kevin Lawrence 11:20
Yeah, unless it’s driving school, that’s a different one, they got a backup steering wheel, because they don’t quite trust the person that’s supposed to be accountable just yet. But you know, it’s, it’s, it makes it easy, or for people, if it’s clear, and that’s it. So so this is model called RACI. And, you know, we did our research into where does it come from? We’ve used it in lots of clients, particularly bigger clients and becomes common when it gets more complicated. And I mean, it was invented back in the 50s. And it’s got all kinds of different offshoots from it. And I, I pulled out one there’s even one called Cairo, like Egypt, and they flipped all the letters around was a this Cairo, there’s Paris, there’s Cairo. Cairo. There’s rapid, huh. Let’s go to Cairo. First of all, just for fun. Mm. Cairo is RACI, scrambled around with an O added into out of the loop or emitted for people who are not part of it at all. It’s almost saying, you know, who is excluded or who’s not part of it. And let’s go to Paris just for fun. Paris instead of so we have responsible, accountable, consulted, informed, that’s what RACI is, for accountability in Paris? Is participant accountable review required input required sign off required? So that’s a hold of you don’t need to go to Cairo or Paris. You just, it’s real. It’s, it’s real simple. But Brad, let’s go through and to give the definitions and then we can give a whole bunch of uses. Because, like, I’ll tell you what, this comes up a lot. Before we get into, you know, the one I see a lot is people who are supposed to only be consulted, thinking that they’re responsible or even co-accountable. So set differently. There. We want to get their input, but they have nothing to do with the decision, or with making of the decision. And it’s like asking them what color do you want the walls to be? And they say, purple and someone else say green? And another person says wait, and you say thank you. You may complete and then they might be blue. And they have to go Okay, it wasn’t and they can’t come fighting. I wanted this because it’s it’s a decision discipline way to have debates and make decisions.
Brad Giles 13:54
Well, it’s not your role is and that, that that’s part of my role.
Kevin Lawrence 13:59
I’m important in this company, I need to be a part of this. I have been running this department for years. You need to listen, I’ve got whatever the reason is, yes.
Brad Giles 14:10
But that’s fine. Under the underlying net, that’s important, because underlying that, and I’ve seen this before, is people who are trying to gather resources trying to gather power in companies, and they want to, they want to have denial against a lot of things. And
Kevin Lawrence 14:35
that’s a side of it, Brad,
Brad Giles 14:37
it’s opposite to the first thing, which is in the first instance, he said, Everybody my problem, not my problem. Yeah. In the first instance, he said, Well, I thought that that person was taking care of it. I thought that person was taking care of it. In this case, it’s a grab for power. So that’s why the clarification is so incredible. It’s blenders
Kevin Lawrence 15:00
two things, Brad, I’ve seen grabs for power. I’ve seen people really truly deeply caring, that aren’t power hungry. And I’ve also seen and you know, I worked in one very large group for a while. It’s, whoa, that looks risky. I don’t want to touch it. and avoiding accountability or responsibility. I remember seeing the CFO of a very large group, when it would come to sign off on big important projects. He’d make sure he didn’t, he never signed anything, never recommended anything. So we had to pin the A on the damn forehead. Exactly. But he should have been accountable. But he was a smart corporate guy who always tried to fail, find a way not to, because if it was risky and went bad, it wouldn’t come back to him. Yep. So there’s cases where you got to go and actually hang it on them, so that they are accountable, and they know it. And we all know that it kind of it’s all over the map sometimes. But that one in particular, always, I’m like, wow, this guy’s really sharp.
Brad Giles 16:11
Yeah, no. Because the risk, and that’s perhaps more in my experience, as well, more in larger organizations, you get the risk averse people who want to avoid accountability.
Kevin Lawrence 16:27
Yeah, or people who are afraid of failing, even in smaller orgs. Sometimes some people, some people don’t want to put their neck out. And and they’ll throw, they’ll they’ll try and not be and they’ll try and slide out of it. That’s why, you know, in the world, we come we have this thing called of who, what, when an action log from a meeting. So you can really nail things down, because some people do, you know, try and slide it over. But we can get some examples. Let’s go and just define the raci. Really, really well.
Brad Giles 16:58
Yeah, so I’m responsible is number one. So the person assigned to do the work. accountable is number two, the person who makes the final decision and has the ultimate ownership, see is consulted. The person who must be consulted before a decision or action is taken, and then informed the person who must be informed that a decision or action has been taken. So there are different roles there. And just like you mentioned about Paris, and Cairo there, this is just one of the many, many different versions and, you know, I would invoke the rule of best practice. And this is one form of best practice, the role of the listeners is to interpret how to make best practice work best in your organization. And so and so I think with the smart acronym, there’s like 91 different versions of smart and what they mean. Okay, so find the one that works the best for you. This is the one that we’ve got to talk about today. So this isn’t the right or the wrong one. It’s just the one that we’re talking about today.
Kevin Lawrence 18:14
Yeah. And it’s, it’s the best one I have seen, that is within RACI, you could come up with other acronyms. But this is a damn good one. Yeah, if you find something else, at the end of the day, is it’s about agreeing on it and knowing who is responsible, accountable, accountable, consulted, informed. And, you know, let me give an example is is we were in a company recently and debating something that had to do with investment in the operations part of the business. And and you could argue that all the executives have a vested interest and the best executive teams, to some degree at their best, you might not even need this. Yeah. Because the best teams, they want to debate things and they debate it until they agree. And and and so it basically in the good times, you need this slightly less on some things in the bad times, you really need it to help kind of hold it all together, that kind of being like the glue that holds it together. So in this thing is we’re talking about this, and we’re talking about the investment operations. No one had a finance, I believe, was the head of finance, if I remember correctly, head of finance said, Well, you know, from a finance perspective, this is important for this reason, and this reason, and we don’t agree about this. And the CEO nicely said at some point, yes. You know, I hear you and that’s good. And want to get all of your perspectives. And at the end of the day, we’ve got to make the right decision for the business. Yeah. Now the CEO probably won’t make that the CEO because it’s a capital investment. The CEO. me clarify this, we decided that they were accountable. Where’s the head of ops accountable?
Kevin Lawrence 20:08
hmm. In this case, we decided the head of head of operations was actually accountable, because they had the ownership for it. But but because it involved capital, they getting cash for it. Yeah. Yeah. But but the the ultimate execution of the definable decision of what to do was the head of operations. But the capital of whether or not we had a cap, the the capital was between the CFO and the CEO.
Brad Giles 20:08
Brad Giles 20:42
So what was the CEOs role in that? was the CEO responsible, consulted or informed?
Kevin Lawrence 20:52
consulted as part of it? Yeah. But the out of operations was making the final decision, because this has already been aproved in the capital in the capital plan and was already in the budget. But in the discussion, you would never know it. Yeah. Because the CEO and most great CEOs don’t exert their power or exert their authority. The CEO essentially override anything in the business. Yeah, the best CEOs let the execs and their teams make almost every decision.
Brad Giles 21:25
Yeah, I could not agree more. And that’s when, when I first start working with a team, and I know it’s the same for you, it’s that that’s one of the big, the big sort of lightbulb moments is that what I say to them is we’re democratizing the decision making process. And the leaders often don’t believe that it’s possible, or they don’t believe that they can do it, or they can trust people. And then once they’ve been through a few iterations, they’re like, this is the best thing ever. Like, we’ve got people who are accountable. And then actually working on the right things. I’ve just multiplied my capabilities throughout the whole team. It’s, it’s a, it’s a beautiful, beautiful thing to see the from a human factor, like the just the relief that they get. But that comes about because people take accountability so many times. And I guess it’s the same for you so many times. I’m in a leadership team meeting. And someone says, yep, I’ll do that. I’ll do that with Rob. Like, we’ll do that together. And I’m just like, Oh, hang on timeout. We can’t do it together. Like we need one, only one person. And they think that I’m just being pedantic. But it all comes back to unless we can define it. You know, now, the only time I’ve seen that is when I work with a couple of companies who’ve got they kind of like two companies in one leadership team, if that makes sense. So we’ve got, for example, two operations managers, and this person is going to roll out the new operations, marketing strategy for that business and then that business so yes, he these a little bit of leeway there to degrade.
Kevin Lawrence 23:11
But it’s like anything 99% of the time you follow this exactly. And if you do 99%, you’re good. I’ve had situations, rare situations, and we do everything possible, you have co heads on something. Because you have similar to people in different parts of an organization, or two people in organizations that are working almost like parallel organizations in the same company. And there might be times when you’d have even then we try and say, okay, but which one of you is going to take the lead this time?
Brad Giles 23:44
Kevin Lawrence 23:47
99.9% we get one, but sometimes there’s been the odd time as to, it just should be an exception. And not a normal thing for there to be two people. So let’s take an example. So the responsible, usually, that’s fairly clear in most companies who’s going to do the work? Yeah. Most the time, the accountability, who the ultimate decision maker is hard, especially gets bigger and they’ll be fighting over that sometimes. But the ultimate decision maker and the person who has to make sure it works. The consultant is interesting, because lots of people on important stuff want to be consulted. And then some people don’t want to consult people. Those power hungry ones in particular or busy and forgetful but not consulting somebody important on a critical decision. Yeah, is really interestingly, I am consulted on a lot of key decisions with our clients. I have no accountability. I have no decision making power. Or ownership power of things within companies, I generally am not responsible and doing the work, but I make sure and I will regularly ask to be consulted or on the see. Because, you know, like I’ll say I said to CEO today, you know, my job is to challenge you the thinking of the decision, right up in point to the point that decisions made. Once a decision is made, my job is to help find us ways to win. But But I, I put myself into a C role and want to be in that C role a lot. Because there’s perspectives I have from all the others, like you do perspectives I have from a lot of other companies. And, you know, sometimes when people are trying to jam things through a system, or they’re just too busy, it’s not always malicious. The consultant part gets skipped a lot. And it’s really, really important. Go ahead.
Brad Giles 25:55
Yeah,I don’t have my name against things in the same way that you’ve just described. But I love what you’ve said there. Because I so often, I am actually consulted through there.
Kevin Lawrence 26:11
Sorry, sorry, you won’t see it on the plans. But it’s a note to the executive one place it is I try not to be that much. But I make sure that I am consultant and I get an agreement. I’ll take a look.
Brad Giles 26:25
Yeah. Yeah. And just through the decision making process, when it’s all being debated. Probably like yourself, so often, I’ll be saying, well, like I’ve seen that seven times before. There’s a like, just let’s just have a phone call about that, before you lock that in. And all that interesting or different perspective, throw some more options that will help you to make a better decision or have more confidence in the decision that you make. Again, I’m not accountable, but I’m certainly consulted. Yeah.
Kevin Lawrence 27:00
Yep. So in a minute, I think we should run through a couple of examples. But let’s say on the informed that have maybe gone well, they’re not going well, or we’re just, you know, a case study example. But on the informed people have to be informed. And a lot of times this gets missed, especially on decisions, you know, when something gets decided, and that person isn’t in the meeting. And whether they’re there need to be informed because it’s appropriate, or they need to be informed because they have some execution accountability. That gets missed a lot, too. And there are people that sometimes are just yet that are forgotten in the process. And then we might make a perfect decision. But key people are out of the loop, and it makes a big mess. Yeah, yeah.
Brad Giles 27:48
it’s, so it’s drilling down this simple going back to the beginning, this simple principle to understand and accept is that you can’t have more than one person accountable for something. But then this really drills down into the different layers, or the different roles, and that you can’t just have one area that you would be so what are some examples that that come to mind where you’ve seen racy, perhaps, so successful or perhaps an absence, meaning and lack of success?
Kevin Lawrence 28:26
Yeah. And usually this happens when there’s people involved from different parts of a business. Yeah, right. And it’s not just within your, the direct team that you talk to and work with every day. So new product development is something where it’s very common. So a new product development, there’s lots of different inputs that would come into a lot, so people might be consulted. And even if you new product development, when you get to the final phase, and you’re about to launch it, I mean, you pretty well need to consult the entire organization. Because there’s there’s huge ramifications, and you might not see something, and you might need money, and you got to talk to finance about that, it might make a difference to logistics, or you might deem to you know, have legal involved or operations or sales and marketing if it has anything to do with the customer. So, so new product development as a specific thing that cuts across the business. Yeah, but even in quarterly goals, some of our clients do it diligently. Some it’s just they don’t have an issue with it. But the ones where it gets messy. They will build whatever that whatever that goal a quarterly goal or quarterly rock. They’ll build an action plan and they’ll have a racy on it. They’ll just attach it and it makes it really easy. So that they don’t have the wrong people involved or they’re missing people in it in the wrong way. So I’ve seen that they’re like almost everything when it goes We don’t always we always have who’s accountable? Yeah, for delivering of we call a quarterly goal, always have the A, always. And then they’ll make a list of other people. But we implement the raci. When we start to get problems, communication problems, even buy in problems, you know, for not getting the right people involved up front and consulting them, it creates an issue with buying. So that’s when we normally bring it in.
Brad Giles 30:28
Yeah, what I can do here a lot of is people say, I’m going to, I’m going to maybe not using these words, I’m going to consult with Amina work with Rob on that, that goal. So Rob’s accountable for the goal that someone else is going to be saying, Yeah, I’ll have an input into that, like, and so this is a really good framework to accurately define that role. And to be able to know what, what area will you work in? I remember I, there was a, a team that I worked with, and there was there was two individuals, and they were adamant that they both had to take this on. And this isn’t that point. 1% that you mentioned, though, they there was a partially legitimate reason they both it overlap what they were doing, and, and I knew as I acknowledged that, that I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t get away with it, but be one of the two people was be power hungry, let’s say and, and as I knew this person took it on, did the whole thing. And I don’t even think the other person was barely consulted. But it was just the heat of the moment in the leadership team off site. And then how that kind of panned through? So yeah, using a more formalized framework, I mean, yeah, it may have changed that situation, I don’t know. But it’s certainly something that we see on a regular basis.
Kevin Lawrence 32:03
Yep. And that’s why larger companies or medium sized companies in abusing it, because it gets a bit messy, for all kinds of different reasons with bigger groups of people. And pre defining it and pre agreeing to the raci before we start, helps us to not only be on track for doing a project and it but at the very end when we’re evaluating it. People can if we’ve agreed who would be responsible, accountable, consulted and informed. It can take away some of the chatter for people who aren’t happy with the fact that they’re not just not making the decision.
Brad Giles 32:40
Yeah. So what might be some best practices with RACI Do you think then, like, what might be some ways rough responsibility versus accountability and racy simply being able to nail down people to get people to understand their role? What do you think? I mean, what’s the first thing that comes to mind? Perhaps
Kevin Lawrence 33:04
any big decision that is across different departments?
Brad Giles 33:10
Kevin Lawrence 33:10
Right. Like some of the ones we’ve mentioned, new product development. Things like marketing, people love to have input into marketing. Yeah, sales likes to have input into marketing, finance likes that everyone wants to have input. But at the end of the day, anywhere, where there’s where there’s friction, about people wanting to take control too much, or not take it enough, or usually places that I have seen that this really helps, or there’s just good old confusion.
Kevin Lawrence 33:45
I see confusion and personally, and it depends on the situation team, but, but often I like to I’d like to define it upfront when we’re gonna debate something and really know Okay, well, at the end of the day, who’s making the decision? What is the question or decision we’re trying to make? Who else do we need to consult who can have to inform later on? Who’s responsible to get it done? You know, so it’s but the thing we learned all this stuff, right is you know, if you went in and applied every best practice in every situation possible, you’re going to burden the organization. So this is about where is it needed and we seeing lack of clarity or too much friction around accountability, I would suggest but no matter what always the A Yeah, matter what a and accountability.
Brad Giles 34:40
definitely agree. Always know who is accountable for every time you’re going to make a decision, or you’re going to set a priority or a goal, who’s accountable for one night only best that I’d say that absolutely best practice. And then as a secondary, I love what you said just in and what we’re trying to say Is this is a deeper way to analyze how when we’ve got complexity, again, best practice, how do we get best practice to work in the organization? It depends on the complexity of the question of the situation that we’ve got to solve. Yes. Um, so so maybe the first kind of best practice is to start with accountability and RACI. So if you if you’re making a decision, say, who’s accountable? And do we need a RACI on this or not?
Kevin Lawrence 35:36
Is it a high risk or high value? So is remind me, you know, one of my clients did a salesforce implementation and one of the divisions and burnt about $5 million and did a lot of damage to the business. Yeah. Well, we found out afterwards is IT was responsible, accountable, consulted all themselves, and didn’t inform anybody. Actually, the truth is, they were responsible and accountable. They didn’t consult, and they didn’t inform, and they built a piece of crap.
Brad Giles 36:12
And the salespeople hated it
Kevin Lawrence 36:15
exactly. It didn’t work for the salespeople or the customers. But they got a really nice award from Salesforce, I think that’s what happens when you spend a lot of money. No, seriously, I now have a flag, when you get a big award from your software vendor. Be careful. I’ve seen it a few times. Anyways, it’s it was the company, I am not blaming Salesforce, or the integration company who made a lot of money on it. But they internally had passionate it people who thought they could do it that maybe they were lacking time, I don’t know. But whatever it is, they built a piece of crap. That didn’t work from the business because they didn’t consult the business near enough. And this happens all the time. Those are hard projects. Same with any er p or CRM, the chance of them failing is really high. And this doesn’t guarantee it’s fixed. But it helps.
Brad Giles 37:23
You know, one of the companies I used to own was an IT software company, you just sent a shiver down my spine, because I think about one of the projects that we did that was that that cost us a lot of money and a lot of time and it was the first of its type. It was you know, the next generation, it was the largest one in the southern hemisphere. And we burned a heap of cash and we won an award for it. And I’m thinking, Ah, that’s the unwritten rule that I’ve just learned. So thanks for that. Who said you don’t learn anything on the growth? whispers?
Kevin Lawrence 37:59
So so we got kind of three things we want to leave, leave you with today’s with your key decisions or key projects, big things that go across your business, start with a RACI, it just makes it way easier that way, like you don’t forget key people that need to be involved. Or you don’t waste the time of people who don’t need to be involved or consulted in this case. Yeah. Educate your team on the difference between them responsible and accountable are very different things. And you’ll hear people will say, Well, if I’m going to be accountable, I need to be responsible to which is helpful in a lot of cases.
Go ahead, not just your leadership team, the whole team so even down to your frontline workers to know the difference.
Kevin Lawrence 38:46
Yes, it’s in the company. Exactly. And then and then and then just remember there’s only one a right and there’s multiple ways and accountable. Yes, there is multiple pieces accountable. But you only want one a, you know one name or one person accountable on any given thing. Yes, single point of accountability is the way that keeps it clear. And it makes it easier for the people. So it’s like you’re not fighting for the steering wheel, there is only one steering wheel in the car, so you can’t fight for it. And that’s and that’s what we’re really doing. That’s the person that’s accountable for getting us there and the other people can, you know, be and be a part of the ride. They can have a nap in the passenger seat, whatever it happens to be. But it is but it’s having that single point of accountability.
Brad Giles 39:38
Good chat also. So start with RACI so or accountabilities begin with when you set a thing know what it is. Number two, educate your team. And number three, there’s only one person who can be accountable. Really simple, succinct, yeah, good. Good lessons there, I think. So good chat. So who’s going to quit Am I gonna close? Are you gonna close?
Kevin Lawrence 40:01
Yeah, you can wrap it up. And I just want to say is Hey, and you know, it was really fun to talk about going to Paris and Cairo for a few minutes. travels this fascinating idea. Yeah. So thanks. Thanks for listening. And this has been the growth whispers as it is every week, you know, with Brad and I’m Kevin and so for video go to youtube.com and the growth whispers and for Brad – evolutionpartners.com.au. And for myself, Kevin – Lawrenceandco.com have an awesome week.